GRIEF GROUP TRANSCRIPT
SESSION 6
DATE: 10/13/2014
TIME: 06:29 P.M.
TOTAL IN ATTENDANCE:
15 ATTENDEES, 16 REGISTERED FOR ATTENDANCE
DURATION OF MEETING:
60 MINUTES OUT OF THE MINIMUM 60 MINUTES REQUIRED
*BEGIN*
DR KUVAAR:
THE TEMPERATURES ARE REALLY STARTING TO DROP OUTSIDE, AREN’T THEY? I HOPE ALL OF YOU WERE ABLE TO STAY WARM ON YOUR WAY OUT TONIGHT. HOW HAS EVERYONE BEEN?
PATIENT 911:
REMEMBER WHEN WE TALKED ABOUT THE STAGES OF GRIEF AND YOU SAID AFTER DENIAL IS ANGER?
DR KUVAAR:
I THINK YOUR QUESTION IS RHETORICAL, BUT YES. I THINK MOST OF US PROBABLY REMEMBER THAT BEING MENTIONED. WHY DO YOU ASK, CAROLINE?
PATIENT 911 (CAROLINE):
WELL I JUST THINK SOME PEOPLE MIGHT NEED HELP FIGURING OUT HOW TO START UNPACKING THAT ANGER. LET’S START WITH ADVISE FOR THAT.
PATIENT 621:
ARE YOU REALLY GOING TO BE LIKE THIS?
PATIENT 911 (CAROLINE):
I’M NOT SURE WHAT WAY YOU THINK I’M BEING. PLEASE TELL ME. IT DOES SEEM TO BE ONE OF YOUR STRENGTHS.
PATIENT 621:
I DON’T KNOW WHY I’M NOT ALLOWED TO BE FRUSTRATED.
DR KUVAAR:
IF I MAY, COULD ONE OF YOU EXPLAIN WHAT THE CATALYST TO THIS ARGUMENT WAS?
PATIENT 911 (CAROLINE):
HE CAME TO A WORK EVENT WITH ME AND WAS A COMPLETE JERK TO EVERYONE THERE.
PATIENT 621:
IF YOU MEAN BLUNT, THEN – YES – I WAS BLUNT WITH THEM.
DR KUVAAR:
THERE’S A DISAGREEMENT ON THE EVENTS THAT TRANSPIRED. LET’S START WITH SANTIAGO – WHAT WERE YOU DOING AT THIS EVENT?
PATIENT 621 (SANTIAGO):
CAROLINE INVITED ME TO THE TASTER’S NIGHT AT THE CHIPPED COFFEE CUP. I WAS NERVOUS ABOUT GOING IN BECAUSE I WASN’T GOING TO REALLY FIT IN WITH THE GROUP. IT WAS ALSO GOING TO BE WEIRD BECAUSE SHE’D NEVER TAKEN ANYONE BUT HER GRANDMA SO I WAS EXPECTING A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS ABOUT HER BRINGING ME BUT IT WAS NON-STOP. EVERYONE WAS ASKING ME STUFF LIKE IT WAS AN INTERROGATION TO SEE IF I WAS GOOD ENOUGH TO BE THERE WITH HER. AND IT JUST SEEMED LIKE EVERYONE ASSUMED WE WERE DATING. I WASN’T GOING TO PUT UP WITH THAT KIND OF SHIT WITH A SMILE ON MY FACE.
PATIENT 911 (CAROLINE):
FORGIVE THEM FOR BEING WORRIED ABOUT MY WELL BEING. I’M LIVING WITH MY EX-BOYFRIEND BECAUSE I DON’T HAVE ANY OTHER FAMILY TO HELP GET ME ON MY FEET. THEY JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE YOU WEREN’T GOING TO BE A TOTAL LET DOWN.
DR KUVAAR:
HOW DID THINGS HAPPEN FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE, CAROLINE?
PATIENT 911 (CAROLINE):
HE REFUSED TO INTERACT WITH ANYONE AFTER HE MADE THEM ALL UNCOMFORTABLE WITH COMMENTS ABOUT BEING AN ORPHAN AND CRYPTIC MESSAGES ABOUT HOW WE’RE NOT DATING. A LOT OF MY CO-WORKERS SAID THAT HE MADE SLIGHT COMMENTS ABOUT THEIR ATTEMPTS TO GET TO KNOW HIM AND ABOUT HOW THEY FELT BAD FOR EVEN TALKING TO HIM.
DR KUVAAR:
DO YOU THINK THAT THERE’S ANY MERIT TO SANTIAGO’S COMPLAINT THAT THEY WERE ASKING HIM QUESTIONS THAT MADE HIM FEEL LIKE THEY ASSUMED THAT YOU WERE DATING EACH OTHER?
PATIENT 911 (CAROLINE):
PROBABLY. THEY LOVE GOSSIPING.
DR KUVAAR:
HOW WOULD YOU FEEL IF SOMEONE MADE THAT ASSUMPTION WHEN SPEAKING WITH YOU?
PATIENT 621 (SANTIAGO):
JUST AS ANGRY. TWO WEEKS AGO WE HAD DINNER WITH HER EX-BOYFRIEND AND HIS NEW GIRLFRIEND AND IT WAS A NIGHTMARE. THIS NEW GIRLFRIEND ASSUMED THAT WE WERE DATING AND CAROLINE MADE IT PERFECTLY CLEAR THAT SHE COULD TAKE CARE OF HERSELF.
PATIENT 911 (CAROLINE):
YOU EMBARRASSED ME! I’VE BEEN WORKING WITH THESE PEOPLE FOR YEARS AND THE WAY YOU ACTED MADE ME ASHAMED TO HAVE INVITED YOU IN THE FIRST PLACE.
PATIENT 621 (SANTIAGO):
IF I’M ALLOWED TO ACTUALLY APOLOGIZE THIS TIME, I WOULD LOVE TO TRY.
DR KUVAAR:
ALLOWED TO APOLOGIZE?
PATIENT 621 (SANTIAGO):
YEAH. I TRIED TO APOLOGIZE AFTERWARDS BUT SHE WOULDN’T LET ME BECAUSE “I DIDN’T MEAN IT,” APPARENTLY.
DR KUVAAR:
WERE YOU APOLOGIZING SINCERELY?
PATIENT 911 (CAROLINE):
ABSOLUTELY NOT! HE DIDN’T EVEN WANT TO TALK ABOUT IT. HE JUST TOOK RIGHT THE FUCK OFF INTO THE NIGHT AND IGNORED ME. I DON’T EVEN KNOW HOW HE GOT HOME THAT NIGHT.
PATIENT 621 (SANTIAGO):
A TAXI. I TOOK A TAXI.
DR KUVAAR [TO SANTIAGO]:
SO WHAT DO YOU NEED FROM CAROLINE TO FEEL RESOLVED ABOUT THIS SITUATION?
PATIENT 621 (SANTIAGO):
FOR HER TO ADMIT THAT SHE’S GETTING MAD AT ME WHEN SHE SHOULD BE JUST AS UPSET WITH HER CO-WORKERS FOR MAKING ME SO UNCOMFORTABLE.
DR KUVAAR [TO CAROLINE]:
AND WHAT DO YOU NEED FROM SANTIAGO TO FEEL RESOLVED ABOUT THIS SITUATION?
PATIENT 911 (CAROLINE):
I WANT HIM TO BE HONEST ABOUT WHY HE WAS SO ANGRY. IT WASN’T JUST TASTER’S NIGHT. HE WAS BASICALLY OSCAR THE GROUCH ALL WEEK. I’M HIS PARTNER AND HE’S SUPPOSED TO BE TALKING TO ME WHEN HE STARTS FEELING THAT WAY.
PATIENT 621 (SANTIAGO):
YOU DIDN’T EVEN ASK. YOU JUST ASSUMED IT WAS ABOUT MY PARENTS.
PATIENT 911 (CAROLINE):
WHEN YOU WON’T TALK TO ME I CAN’T ASSUME ANYTHING ELSE!
DR KUVAAR:
BEING ANGRY IS HARD WHEN ITS GRIEF RELATED ANGRY. YOU DON’T KNOW WHY YOU’RE ANGRY HALF OF THE TIME BECAUSE NOBODY HAS DONE ANYTHING. IT’S JUST A GENERAL EMOTION THAT WELLS UP INSIDE OF US AND MAKES US COMPLETELY IRRATIONAL.
PATIENT 621 (SANTIAGO):
FOR THE RECORD, I KNOW WHY I’M ANGRY.
DR KUVAAR:
DO YOU FEEL COMFORTABLE OPENING UP ABOUT YOUR ANGER TONIGHT?
PATIENT 621 (SANTIAGO):
I’M PRETTY INDIFFERENT ABOUT IT, HONESTLY.
DR KUVAAR:
WELL, I ONLY WANT YOU TO TALK ABOUT IT IF YOU’RE READY TO TALK ABOUT IT. NOBODY IS GOING TO BE PRESSURED INTO SOMETHING HERE BECAUSE THAT’S COUNTERPRODUCTIVE TO THIS PROCESS. THERAPY IS A TOOL TO HELP YOU, NOT A PUNISHMENT FOR FEELING THE WAY THAT YOU FEEL.
PATIENT 621 (SANTIAGO):
IT’S GOING TO SOUND LIKE A COP OUT ANSWER, DOCTOR KUVAAR, BUT I’M REALLY JUST ANGRY ABOUT EVERYTHING. I’M ANGRY ABOUT MY PARENTS DYING, THE QUESTIONS EVERYONE HAS ABOUT HOW I AM DOING NOW THAT THEY’RE GONE, ABOUT HOW GRIEF GROUP IS GOING. I’M ANGRY ABOUT PEOPLE ASSUMING THAT CAROLINE AND I ARE A COUPLE. THAT’S NOT THEIR BUSINESS. I’M ANGRY THAT BEING ANY OTHER RACE THAN WHITE IS SOMETHING TO BE ASHAMED OF SO PEOPLE LIKE ME HAVE TO KEEP THEIR CULTURE LOCKED AWAY FROM THE PUBLIC EYE. I’M ANGRY THAT SEXUALITY IS SOMETHING THAT OTHER PEOPLE GET TO SPECULATE ABOUT AND THAT SOMEONE’S HEALTH HANGS IN THE BALANCE OF HEALTH INSURANCE COMPANIES THAT DON’T SEE PEOPLE AS PEOPLE. EVERYWHERE I LOOK, THERE’S SOMETHING TO BE ANGRY ABOUT.
PATIENT 1108:
HE’S NOT WRONG. THERE’S SO MUCH SHIT GOING WRONG IN THE WORLD THAT THERE’S ALMOST NO REASON TO WALK AROUND WITH A SMILE ON YOUR FACE. OUR GOVERNMENT CAN’T BE TRUSTED, FOR EXAMPLE.
DR KUVAAR:
DOES ANYONE ELSE FEEL THE SAME WAY?
TWO ADDITIONAL PATIENTS RAISE THEIR HANDS
DR KUVAAR (TO SANTIAGO):
ARE ANY OF THOSE THINGS BOTHERING YOU MORE THAN THE OTHERS?
PATIENT 621 (SANTIAGO):
THEY’RE ALL MAKING ME EQUALLY ANGRY.
PATIENT 911 (CAROLINE):
AND DOES BEING ANGRY ABOUT EVERYTHING REALLY MAKE YOU FEEL BETTER?
DR KUVAAR:
THE ANGER DOESN’T HAVE TO MAKE SENSE OR DO ANYTHING FOR HIS MENTAL STATE. THE ANGER IS IRRATIONAL. IN ORDER TO DEAL WITH IT, WE HAVE TO FIGURE OUT WAYS FOR SANTIAGO TO BREAK FREE OF THAT ANGER SO THAT HE CAN SEE THINGS MORE OBJECTIVELY IN HIS DAY-TO-DAY ACTIVITIES.
PATIENT 621 (SANTIAGO):
I’M DOING JUST FINE. I’M JUST OSCAR THE GROUCH, APPARENTLY.
PATIENT 911 (CAROLINE):
AND YOU’RE PUSHING ME AWAY TOO.
PATIENT 621 (SANTIAGO):
THAT’S NOT MY INTENTION.
PATIENT 911 (CAROLINE):
NOT LETTING ME IN IS INTENTIONAL.
DR KUVAAR:
NOT NECESSARILY. ISOLATING CAN LOOK INTENTIONAL BUT THE INDIVIDUAL DOESN’T DO IT FOR THE REASONS THAT YOU ASSUME. MOST PEOPLE WHO ARE SELF-SABOTAGING SO THAT THEY WILL BE ALONE TRY TO MAKE YOU HATE THEM SO THAT YOU WON’T WANT TO HELP THEM OR TALK TO THEM. THEY’RE ISOLATING BECAUSE THEY THINK THAT THEY ARE TOXIC AND THEY WANT TO PROTECT YOU. SO IT ISN’T THE SAME INTENTIONALITY AS WHEN THEY DON’T TRUST YOU BUT BECAUSE WHAT THEY REALLY DON’T TRUST THEMSELVES.
PATIENT 911 (CAROLINE):
SO WHAT AM I SUPPOSED TO DO? FIGHT AGAINST HIM EVEN THOUGH HE WANTS NOTHING TO DO WITH ME?
PATIENT 621 (SANTIAGO):
LET’S TAKE A BREAK. I’M HUNGRY. PLEASE TELL ME SOMEONE ELSE IS HUNGRY TOO. ANYONE?
MULTIPLE PATIENTS RAISE THEIR HANDS
** BRIEF UNSTRUCTURED BREAK FROM 6:55 – 7:05 **
DR KUVAAR:
SO, BEFORE WE TOOK A BREAK, A HANDFUL OF YOU ADMITTED TO BEING REALLY ANGRY AT THE WORLD THAT WE’RE LIVING IN. THAT’S A PRETTY COMMON FEELING, ACTUALLY, BUT I WANT TO DISCUSS SOME WAYS WE CAN AVOID BEING UPSET AND HOW TO COME DOWN AFTER SOMETHING SETS US OFF.
PATIENT 1108:
EXCUSE ME, BUT I HAVE A HARD TIME ‘COMING DOWN’ FROM MY ANGER WHEN THE GOVERNMENT KILLED MY BROTHER.
PATIENT 417:
KELLER, YOU HAVE NO PROOF THAT THE GOVERNMENT HAD YOUR BROTHER KILLED. IF THERE WAS PROOF, MAYBE SOMEONE WOULD BELIEVE YOU, BUT YOU DON’T HAVE ANYTHING.
PATIENT 1108 (KELLER):
WHAT DO YOU MEAN I DON’T HAVE PROOF? HE JUST WROTE A LETTER TO ME. I GOT THE NEWS OF HIS DEATH BEFORE I GOT MY FUCKING LETTER. YOU DON’T WRITE A GODDAMN LETTER WHEN YOU’RE IN THE MIDDLE OF A FUCKING WARZONE. BUT HE WASN’T ANYWHERE DANGEROUS! THEY SAID HE DIED IN A TRAINING EXERCISE FROM A FRIENDLY FIRE. DO YOU KNOW HOW UNLIKELY THAT IS? HIS LETTER WAS DATED THE DAY OF HIS DEATH. BUT HE DIED IN THE MORNING? IT DOESN’T ADD UP.
PATIENT 417:
KELLER, PLEASE. I KNOW IT HURT YOU THAT HE DIED AND THAT YOU WANT TO BLAME SOMEONE BUT IT WAS JUST AN ACCIDENT.
DR KUVAAR:
I THINK THAT WE SHOULD MAYBE TALK ABOUT THIS ONE-ON-ONE SOMETIME, KELLER. I WANT TO KNOW MORE ABOUT THIS EXPERIENCE BUT I DON’T WANT TO DETRACT FROM THE OBJECTIVE OF THIS CONVERSATION. ARE YOU OKAY MEETING WITH ME AT A DIFFERENT TIME?
PATIENT 1108 (KELLER):
I DON’T THINK I NEED TO YOU ABOUT IT. I KNOW THAT THE GOVERNMENT KILLED HIM BECAUSE HE PROBABLY KNEW TOO MUCH ABOUT SOMETHING. THAT’S HOW THAT SHIT GOES. THERE’S NOTHING MORE TO DISCUSS IT. WE CAN MOVE ON WITH YOUR “LESSON,” DOC.
DR KUVAAR:
OK.
PATIENT 417:
REALLY? JUST ‘OK’ AND WE MOVE ON?
PATIENT 1108 (KELLER):
DON’T QUESTION HER METHODS.
DR KUVAAR [TO EVERYONE]:
WHAT ARE SOME THINGS THAT CALM YOU DOWN WHEN YOU’RE UPSET?
PATIENT 401:
RUNNING WATER. I LISTEN TO RAIN SOUNDS A LOT WHEN I’M FEELING OVERWHELMED.
PATIENT 811:
BROWSE FOR MY FAVORITE VINES AND DRINK HOT TEA.
PATIENT 911 (CAROLINE):
WASH DISHES AND LISTEN TO MY FAVORITE PODCAST.
PATIENT 621 (SANTIAGO):
THE EMOTIONAL Z-PACK.
PATIENT 911 (CAROLINE):
AND YOU LISTEN TO THE BAD NEW CHRONICLES.
DR KUVAAR:
DO YOU LISTEN TO YOUR PODCASTS WITH HEADPHONES?
PATIENT 911 (CAROLINE):
I USUALLY DO JUST SO THAT CASPER DOESN’T TALK TO ME.
PATIENT 621 (SANTIAGO):
I DON’T. SHOULD I?
DR KUVAAR:
IT CAN HELP CREATE THE FEELING OF ISOLATION WITHOUT ACTING OUT. NEXT TIME YOU’RE ANGRY, PUT YOUR PODCAST ON AND LISTEN WITH HEADPHONES. IT COULD BE REALLY HELPFUL AND SOOTHING.
PATIENT 222:
I USE HEADPHONES ALL THE TIME. THE MORE HEADPHONE TIME I HAVE, THE CALMER I AM THROUGHOUT THE DAY.
DR KUVAAR:
DO ANY OF YOU KNOW YOUR WARNING SIGNS? CAN YOU TELL WHEN YOU’RE GETTING WORKED UP?
PATIENT 1002:
I KNOW THAT I’M ABOUT TO GET REALLY UPSET ABOUT SOMETHING WHEN I START MOVING BACK AND FORTH. IF I AM STANDING, THEN I START PACING. IF I AM SITTING, I USUALLY START ROCKING. IF I AM IN BED LYING DOWN, I’LL START ROLLING.
DR KUVAAR:
AND WHAT DO YOU DO IF YOU FEEL YOURSELF REACHING THAT POINT?
PATIENT 1002:
I DRINK A COLD GLASS OF WATER. USUALLY ICE WATER.
PATIENT 506:
HE DOES. HE KEEPS COLD WATER WITH HIM ALL THE TIME.
DR KUVAAR:
SO, NATHANIEL, YOU AND I HAVE TALKED ABOUT YOUR ANGER BEFORE, WITH OUR LAST GROUP, AND YOU RAISED YOUR HAND EARLIER. YOU’VE BEEN COPING WITH IRRATIONAL ANGER FOR A LONG TIME, RIGHT?
PATIENT 1002 (NATHANIEL):
I STARTED ANGER MANAGEMENT IN HIGH SCHOOL. I WAS BECOMING DESTRUCTIVE AT HOME WHEN I WOULD GET UPSET BECAUSE I WOULD TRY TO KEEP IT IN. EVEN AS I LEARNED TO EXPRESS MYSELF, THERE WERE TIMES WHERE I COULDN’T CALM DOWN FAST ENOUGH. SO I STARTED GOING TO A WEEKLY ANGER MANAGEMENT GROUP THROUGHOUT HIGH SCHOOL. WHEN I CAME TO COLLEGE, I MOVED TO A ONCE A MONTH THERAPY FORMAT. THIS IS THE FIRST YEAR THAT I’M NOT ATTENDING A REGULAR GROUP OR THERAPIST. I’VE LEARNED A LOT OF COPING MECHANISMS THAT HAVE BEEN REALLY HELPFUL. THAT’S WHY I KEEP ICE WATER WITH ME ALL THE TIME.
DR KUVAAR:
WHAT WAS THE MOST VALUABLE LESSON YOU TOOK FROM YOUR ANGER MANAGEMENT THERAPY?
PATIENT 1002 (NATHANIEL):
YOU NEED TO HAVE SOMETHING ON YOUR PERSON ALL THE TIME SO THAT YOU CAN SELF SOOTHE WHEN YOU START TO NOTICE A BUILDING FRUSTRATION. YOU ALSO NEED SOMEONE THAT YOU CAN REACH OUT TO IF YOU CAN’T SELF SOOTHE, AND AN ACTION PLAN IF YOU FEEL YOURSELF REACHING A POINT WHERE YOU CAN’T CONTROL YOURSELF. FOR EXAMPLE, CASSIDY IS MY PERSON. I CALL HER WHEN I AM REACHING A POINT WHERE I CAN’T STAY CALM. IF I’M ALREADY TOO FAR DOWN THAT PATH, WE MEET UP AT POOL AND TAKE A SWIM. BEING IN THE WATER CALMS ME DOWN AND PHYSICALLY COOLS ME OFF. HAVING AN ACTION PLAN LIKE THAT ALSO GIVES ME THE REASSURANCE THAT I WILL NEVER GET OUT OF CONTROL WITH MY ANGER AGAIN.
DR KUVAAR:
IS THERE ANYONE WHO DOES SOMETHING SIMILAR, LIKE CARRYING A COMFORT ITEM FOR WHEN YOU’RE STRESSED OR LONELY?
PATIENT 1231:
I KEEP A HOODIE IN MY CAR. THE HEAT IN MY CAR DOESN’T WORK. SO THERE’S THIS HOODIE THAT I KEEP IN THERE, AND IT WAS ORIGINALLY JUST TO KEEP ME WARM IN THE COLD MONTHS, BUT NOW I KEEP IT IN THERE BECAUSE IT CALMS ME DOWN AFTER SOCIAL INTERACTIONS AND CLASS.
DR KUVAAR:
THAT’S A FANTASTIC COPING MECHANISM. ANYONE ELSE?
PATIENT 911 (CAROLINE):
I DON’T HAVE A SPECIFIC THING, BUT I KEEP LOGIC GAMES ON MY PHONE. WHEN I’M GETTING REALLY EMOTIONAL ABOUT THINGS, IT’S NICE TO HOPE ON A GAME THAT HAS STRICT RULES AND PATTERNS. I CAN MAKE SENSE OF THAT STUFF SO I BURY MYSELF IN THAT KIND OF ACTIVITY TO DISTRACT MY BRAIN.
PATIENT 621 (SANTIAGO):
GOOD CHOICE. WHAT’S YOUR FAVORITE?
PATIENT 911 (CAROLINE):
I LOVE DOING SUDOKU GAMES. THERE ARE WORD SUDOKUS AND MATH SUDOKUS AND ALL DIFFERENT FORMATS THAT CAN BE PLAYED.
PATIENT 621 (SANTIAGO):
CAN’T GO WRONG WITH SUDOKU.
DR KUVAAR:
WE’RE ABOUT TO THE END OF OUR TIME, I’M AFRAID, AND I WANT TO ISSUE A HOMEWORK ASSIGNMENT OF SORTS TO YOU. I KNOW THAT THIS IS THE LAST THING YOU WANT TO HEAR FROM ME, RIGHT? YOU’RE ALREADY DOING YOUR WEEKLY DINNERS AND WRITING IN YOUR JOURNALS, BUT I WANT EVERYONE TO FIGURE OUT WHAT THEIR SELF SOOTHING THING IS GOING TO BE FOR WHEN THEY’RE GETTING WORKED UP AND ANGRY ABOUT SOMETHING. FEEL FREE TO TEXT ME, EMAIL ME, CALL ME WHEN YOU FIGURE IT OUT. I WANT TO HEAR FROM EVERYONE AT SOME POINT, THOUGH, SO IF I DON’T GET SOMETHING FROM YOU BEFORE NEXT MONDAY, I’LL BE ASKING AT THE MEETING.
VARIOUS RESPONSES AND AFFIRMATIONS FROM PATIENTS ERUPT
DR KUVAAR:
REMEMBER, I AM HERE FOR YOU PROFESSIONALLY AND PERSONALLY. I CARE ABOUT EVERYONE IN THIS ROOM. THERE’S NOTHING I WOULD GIVE TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU ARE HEALTHY AND TAKEN CARE OF IN THE WAY THAT YOU NEED. THIS IS MORE THAN A JOB TO ME AND I HOPE EVERYONE IN THIS ROOM REALIZES THAT.
VARIOUS RESPONSES FROM PATIENTS ERUPT
CHAIRS SKIDDING ACROSS THE FLOOR
*END*
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